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Post by Carina on Sept 18, 2003 17:45:54 GMT -5
Hallo! I have something I want to share. This weekend I was at a seminarium called RAS in Sweden, it´s about the strategy of breeding. We(maybe 30 breeders) talk and work with mentalhealt/temperament, inbreed/over-using males and healt/sickness. It was a very interesting man who came and speak for us, he has done an investigation about dogs personality (OK, every dogowner knows that dogs have a personality . But that´s really interested me was he´s investigation about different breeds "boldness"- strenght, selfcontrol.. The University he works for have use 15000 mentalhealth/temperament-tests of 31 breeds in this. I just write about this who´s coming from my mind but I will take further contact with this man, he was very interesting. About fearless; Amstaff came on the fourth place, the breeds was placed like this: 1. Labrador 2. Flat Coated Retriever 3. Malinois 4. AMSTAFF and down to the 31th place you could find for example Collie, Pinscher at the higher numbers. I think it was an good reading. It was also another kind of fearless, "social"-something I think, Amstaff placed good there too. But aggressive place Amstaff much longer down, if i remember right, at place 27. I stay and talk with the man and ask about aggressive at Amstaff, he told me not to be worry, it was "god" aggressive at the test. And a question from me to you- When I read about Amstaff in Sweden I can read: Amstaff don´t know about their strenght But I mean they know about it, it´s why they are so "cool" and don´t care to "fight" other dogs. What is your opinion?
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Post by Cheyenne Indians AST on Sept 22, 2003 4:08:44 GMT -5
This is reallllllllllllly wonderful news to read ..i will pass it on to dutch amstaff boards , im glad to read that some countries are taking the effort to investigate important things like this for all of us.
john
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Post by Cheyenne Indians AST on Sept 22, 2003 4:15:34 GMT -5
So you meant at this university , they tested that many dogs for agressivity and socialbehaviour , and on the behaviour part they scored 4th and the agression part 27 th ..am i correct
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Post by Boldness on Sept 23, 2003 9:34:06 GMT -5
Hallo!
I have read your question, come back to night and try to explain in bettter words... Se you! ;D
Carina (Dinner is waiting)
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Post by Carina on Sept 23, 2003 17:38:14 GMT -5
Hallo again! Now I have my notes from the seminarium in front of me, will explain little better this time.
The tests the University use, are collect from all dogs starting at mentalhealth/temperamenttest which been registry at the Swedish Kennel Club, the age is from 12-18 months.
They surching for different breeds personality: grad of aggressive fair the level of activity the function meeting other individs
personality and individual differences in behavior stability over time stability between situations
This is some of the things they investigation, and they make the lists and also do "Spider-diagrams" for all this 31 breeds. It was three lists and at the first I miss one dog, but here the list come again: (I called it fairless earlier). NOT SOCIAL FAIR they called it. 1.Labrador Retriever 2.Parson Jack Russel Terrier 3.Flat Coated Retriever 4.Malinois 5.AMSTAFF
The second list: This was about social fair to, in another way. I will try to reach the man to get the lists from him, not just my notices...but look what I remember: 1. Not notice that 2. Boxer 3. Not notice either 4. AMSTAFF
No one of the breeders who´s listening at the seminarium have Amstaff, just me and when these lists was showing they turn to me and smile, it was good results.
The third list: Agressive
1. Not notice 2. AMSTAFF
Number 27 I wrote earlier was totally wrong. Me mind, after a whole weekend talking about dogs behavior ,was stop function.
Here I was a little bite worried about the ranking, have a short talk with the University-man and he told me not to be, it was this "good" agressivity...guard when the ghosts at a mentalhealthtest comes for example...
The working-groups at the seminarium will work further. I in the group working with Menalitet/Temperament, I will contact this University ask them if I can get a "Spider-diagram" and the comlete lists. Maybe we can place them at this forum, sad it´s just Amstaffs from Sweden...
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Post by Cheyenne Indians AST on Sept 24, 2003 4:36:14 GMT -5
Carina ,
So what i now understand is that the amstaff didnt do well , instead of doing well in your first report. I hope you can get the list and place it again if there is a difference between yours and theirs.
But what does it mean for the breed overthere , for the breed.
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Post by dakota on Sept 24, 2003 15:09:14 GMT -5
Not social fair they say?
What guy does have the guts to say that amstaffs an dpits aren't social towards people.?
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Post by Carina on Sept 25, 2003 4:16:58 GMT -5
Hallo! I try again: My opinun when I listen at the seminarium, was that Amstaff done well, I just wondering about the aggressive and ask the man from the University: Are Amstaff so aggressive? No he said, this aggressive we test is not like that...difficullt for me to describre. They surching for every kind of dogs personality and "Boldness", for exempel: The different kind of breeds behavior. Forward, contactsurching, playfull, huntinginteresting, couriousity, unfair AGAINST careful between strangers, want to take a run, uninterested of playing and hunting I´m mean that Amstaff is a dog with high "Boldness"-thats good. In this test I promise Daschhound have no huntinglust- because they hunt with their nose-not with their eyes the mentalhealthtest investigation at the part " huntinglust". It was a long seminarium and I listen carefully- it´s bad I couldn´t explain in better words. For Amstaff one thing is good- at a Workingdog forum in Sweden they throw a lot a s h i t at Staffowner, they say: "They never do mentalhealthtests at Staffs because their dogs wouldn´t pass thru". This investigation at least in Sweden shows that Amstaffowner DO the test, and they pass... Dakota: The meaning is that Amstaff IS VERY SOCIAL in every way! Excuse if I make misunderstandings Carina Meet again!
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Post by Cheyenne Indians AST on Sept 25, 2003 4:25:20 GMT -5
Hi carina , I get it now , eventhough i don't know the word boldness - when i hear/read this word im thinking of bold , no hair So anyway the reports is saying that the amstaff is a stabile and social breed , something we as owners already know ofcourse. Thanks for clearing it out for me again. john
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Post by Carina on Sept 25, 2003 4:33:31 GMT -5
Hallo again! I´m so angry by my self . I´m in and try to explain, right now I´m in real hurry in life. I had a lot of "dogmeetings" this last two weeks. It´s good talk and work for dogs, but my own dogs stay in hotelrooms when I do it, now I´m out and give them a lot of funny things to do because of that... I promise to give you the right facts when I calm down and have talk with the "investigator" at the University. My first thing to do next week- mentalhealthtest of my Amstaffmale He will pass thru! Carina
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Post by Carina on Sept 25, 2003 4:44:18 GMT -5
Hallo! Now I read what you answer John. Yes of course we Amstaff owner know about our breed, the lists aren´t out in public for this time, but both the papers "Dogsport"; Swedish Kennel Club and "Workingdog";Swedish Workingdog Club have already write about the investigation. We will se what happend further, maybe something positiv came for us Amstaffowner... Carina
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Post by Cheyenne Indians AST on Sept 25, 2003 4:52:31 GMT -5
Well carina , thats the same spirit i have , or had for many years , but being agree isn't always working out well. In the years that i stood up for the breed in holland , i have tried to tell others how serious we breeders have to be and fight to have the breed survive , too many are already putting their heads in the sand and let others fight the battles. I hate those kind and don't want them to be the ones that say afterwards - look what we have done , while they didnt do s h i t.
And then the hate that is between breeders and groups , while we are all involved and all have the same ideas on surviving , even if some never do the battle that is going on. I have said over and over again that we as breeders have to make a point and demand from buyers that they are good homes , not only for the outside / outstanders , but also between breeders and fanciers inside the breeds. Only the good will survive , people like us are special and fight for the breed without asking anything back. I wish there where more like us.
john
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Post by Carina on Sept 25, 2003 6:38:54 GMT -5
Hallo again and again! John let us never lose our spirit! And to give exemple to read the list about " not social fair" or what I should named it. And understand "Boldness". Can tell that Collie is on the place number 31, maybe everyone now understand And to be number 1 (Labrador Retriever) is bad: To miss fair/have to much "Boldness" in special moments make dogs stupid. Heard about Wildpigs/Wildporks? Heavy pigs/porks living at least in the woods in Sweden, they are very heavy, with big teeths and very dangerous if they angry. If you hunt them of course they will be angry... In Sweden dogs are with the hunters and hunt them, the dogs are specially trained. I trained my two Amstaffs tracking them, Amstaff is a good choice to use in this sort of hunting. I never done it for real, the hunters ask me to came with my dogs, I demand at least two supergood gunshooters, then I maybe come. By the way my to Amstaffs done a test, I write about it before, but here I will tell about being placed as number 1 at the list. The test: Bloodtrack from Wildpork maybe for 100 m torward a bush, in the bush there´s a skin made like a real Wildpig coming towards and backwards a several times. My Amstaff: Tracking and come to the bush, everytime the "Wildpig" come from the bush they jump away, not scared but very intelligent, then they go forward again and say: Who are you? Came back! When it came back, they jump a away to be sure they wouldn´t get hurt. This is good behavior from the dogs. I looked when Labrador Retriever do the test, they tracking then they go in the bush and stay. If it´s for real the dogs were dead directly. In real hunting these animals hunters use Parson Russel Terriers, I heard they attack the pigs. "Stupid"dogs. The "Boldness" to high! Carina
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Post by dakota on Sept 27, 2003 3:59:26 GMT -5
I do get a grip on boldness now, although i still do not know the word in our language. so the labrador retriever is also more boldness and the jack russel is the worst boldness? do correct me if I'm wrong Carina
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Post by dakota on Sept 27, 2003 4:18:54 GMT -5
after reading the storey again (this topic and all the RE:'s ) I don't get a grip on NOT SOCIAL FAIR in what way are ast's not social fair? You said: The meaning is that Amstaff IS VERY SOCIAL in every way! Excuse if I make misunderstandings Carina why does they take " not social fair"" as words in the test? I don't get the point, the ast's are very social, but in the list they are ranked in second place from worst not social fair till social fair, or do I have to see the list the other way round, that the amstaff is the second littlest (minste in Dutch) 'NOT SOCIAL FAIR' and the golden is the even more littlest 'not social fair' dog? I hope you follow my brain-thinking lol. Problabbly i see it the other way round
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