Ear Cropping, animal abuse?

[Ingunn]

Hi

I was wondering what view you guys have on ear cropping? Please also say why you choose to crop or not crop the ears.

Regards, Ingunn

www.ingunn.has.it/

[PitBullLeri]

It's really a matter of personal choice. There are no benefits, it is purely for cosmetic purposes. If the ears are bad (i.e. heavy, long, crooked) then one might choose to crop, or, if the head is slighter then expected. Natural ears, IMO, make for a softer/kinder expression in almost all animals.

Bye fur now,
Leri

[Cheyenne Indians AST]

I agree ,
Its not a must , and forbidden in several european countries , and i have a feeling it will be banned in must other countries as well in a few years.
But if i could crop i did ..i like the expression more on a cropped dog ..maybe im old fasion but i do.

The breeds we have arent breed for there ears , eventhough a good natural crop is great ...but when its not good at all , and the amstaff has german sheperd ears ..i rather say thats terrible to watch ..and a joke .
Ive seen so many ugly ears , high and straight up in the air , almost touching the roof of a house :-)

In holland the ear and tail crops are history ...but at international big shows ...9 out of 10 times a cropped dog wins over a natural ear one.

john

[dakota]

I am going to say the same as John LOL

I like them most when cropped,
the dog has a more adorable look when cropped,
but that is my opinion.
i find the dog cute when he has cropped ears.
The only way I like uncropped ears is on SBT's.

Bad wearing ears are soooo ugly. It' s like members said before, one ear good and the other high in the sky is not a sight.

When uncropped ears are well set, they look good.
when bad set, they look awfull.

And more cropped ears win at a show. Why, I don't have an explanation.
Maybe they find them nicer when cropped like I do.


In Belgium it 's forbidden to cropp them, so I won't be doing something illegal.
But When I have the choise between a cropped and a uncropped dog I will allways pick the uncropped first.

Dakota

[TXDawg]

Well here is my dilema,

I LOVE the half rose prick look, I guess you could call it the natural correct look.

But, if the ears would turn out "funky" for lack of better terms, I would crop them.

Now, I will be picking up my pup in about 2 weeks @ 8 weeks old. From what I understand the "rule" here in the US is that if you get them cropped you should get them done at no later than 12 weeks old.

Is it possible to tell by then what the natural uncropped ears would look like on the dog, or would it be a major gamble?

Are there experts in the field that can tell by 12 weeks if the ears will turn out good naturally? ANY tips would be greatly appreciated!

Again, I prefer the uncropped half rose prick look, but would crop if I knew they would not turn out that way.

Thanks

[geminiast]

well there is not perfect time to tell....

I do know of vets that will crop at any age though.

good luck

[Cheyenne Indians AST]

An earcrop is possible at an older stage , but the younger the better thow.
Ive seen earcrops at two years old , so it is possible.
But it will hurt alot , and i dont think the dog will appreciate you the time the wound is healing.

Roseprick are nice , but even a good roseprick can change into something terrible ..the head and body change in the months , but so does the ears.

john

[CindelP]

Hi all,

The true is that a ear crop is not only cosmetic (the same way as docking). The ear crop (and the shape of the crop) have a function and a reason os being. In the case of the amstaff the crop is smal because they were used on dog fights. The same goes with the pit-bull and also other big hunting dogs (as the dogo argentino). This because a full down ear is very easy to grab by the oponent.

Well, is true that these dogs are not use in dog fights anymore, however it is part of their history.

I, as i breeder, believe in keeping their working heritage alive. A breed is done by the body and the mind!. So, being we cannot ignore the crop.

Is it cruel ? By what i have seen, no it is not cruel IF done in the right conditions, and done like that all dogs are running happy a few years latter. For me cruel is having a dog chained on the backyard all day, breeding only for money ... that is cruel.

I find quite ridiculous the bans that we see in some europeans countries. First, because is done by "animal lovers" that don't know anything about breeding/working dogs or it is done by politians that also don't know anything about dogs (just look at BSL).

Being so, crooping or not should be the owners to decide. some people prefer crooped dogs (as myself), other don't. But please, don't tell me that is cruel !

Just my opinion, and sorry for all the spelling mistakes

[geminiast]

I also prefer a cropped dog. I get my dogs cropped at 9 weeks to 11 weeks old.

I do like a nice rose ear on a female though. I do not like the natural ears on a male.

Although this male out of my litter is not cropped and I thknk he looks good. I know this is not even a good ear type LOL
He was placed in a pet home and I requested that they not crop. But he later came back to me and went to a show home and did become a CH with those ears and a GR CH too ( ukc) and a int CH.

look at those ears LOL

[dakota]

or these ones LOL

nl.msnusers.com/AmStaffFans/dragon.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=160

[dakota]

Geminast

those ears of your dog in picture are in one way much better then my link of that dog.

I know the dog of your picture has wrong helt ears but they are regardable

hihi
Dakota

[Cheyenne Indians AST]

When done properly i like a cropped ear more , but i have seen several bad crops ...thats horrible for the dog - or the looks or it.

I understand the perpos , but at this point i believe its only cosmatic and for us people.

In alot of countries and certainly in europe , the governments are forbidden crops , on tails and ears.
In a few years time , it may be the isssue in the rest of the world as well.

What i dont agree on is when a earcropped dog wins over a uncropped , just because of the better expression - even when the uncropped is better , a cropped dog often wins.
Thats not fair at all.

john

[geminiast]

i agree on the wins. i used to show a f. with awesome ears
she got dumped in the show ring and i asked the judge why???
he said the ears. said the cropped ears helps the look of the dog. he knew it was wrong to do that too. he even said so. it SUCKS!!!!!!

[Ironheartk9s]

I like both cropped ears and natural ears (those held rose). As far as cropping at 12 weeks there are many, breeders and vets that suggest waiting until the dog is at least 6 months plus. The 12 week rule was set for Dobs, Great danes, Boxers, any dog that the crops are quite long, to assure that the cartelage was strong and would stand properly. AmStaffs have great cartelage which allows the ear to stand with out problem even when cropped after a year.

Cropping bans are quickly popping up all over , and will more than likely take the choice to crop or not away from us all.

As far as the ears that look as a GSD it is IMO that these ears are easy to correct TEXTif caught when they first start to go this wayTEXT, by taping them and training the cartalege how to stand I have seen several AST's with natural ears whose ears were "taught to stand".

I agree that in the conformation ring there is a 90% chance that a good dog with cropped ears will beat a good dog with natural ears, even though it is only cosmetic and does not effect the function of the dog. Here in the states there are several possible reasons. First is that like several on this list they like cropped ears and beleive that thats how they should look, many Breeder Judges who have raised an Own AST's. Second there are Judges that believe that this is a "Head breed" and thats the looks of the head are more important than function of the dog. Third many Judges and Fanciers do not understand the standard as it is written about ears.They do not unerstand a Rose or Half prick ear. I to fell into this catagory however after attending a standard seminar at the STCA National when it was held here in TX in 2001 I saw things differently concearning ears. The Picture posted by dakota is a good half prick, years ago I would have thought them to be sub-standard.

How do you get around this I do not know but to show the natural ear dogs along side the cropped ear dogs. Learn what judges give natural ears a fair shot. We have two with natural earsand two with cropped going to the conformation ring will let you know how they fair.


Here is a nice Rose ear dog

[Deja Vu AST]

I also like both, really depends on the dog itself and how the ears are on that dog. I think some dogs look better with the crop, while some look awesome with the natural look