pluto
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Posts: 28
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Post by pluto on Jan 18, 2003 15:22:10 GMT -5
Hello
My name is Maria, I am 38 years old and I live in Sweden, own one male Am.staff (20 months old). Before him I had a German Sheperd. Now in wintertime when it is very cold here (today -17 C) Im training him in "search", I dont now the english word, but the dog works in the forest and take up the shent of human being from the wind. This event fit the Am.staff very well, it is important with independense and a big love to the uman being! The even also include an obedience program and "messenger service". In the summer Im tracking and obidience training him. We have competed with good results. All my spare time is going to the dog.
Maria
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Post by Tacoma on Jan 18, 2003 21:32:49 GMT -5
Hmm, by the looks of your dog I wonder where you got your dog, is it by any chance a Zican's dog?
The word you where looking for I think was SAR / Search & Rescue training.
I hope to hear more from you since you are living in my neighbour country :-)
Best Robert
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Post by Cheyenne Indians AST on Jan 19, 2003 9:36:51 GMT -5
Welcome maria ,
Its really a joy to see people working their amstaffs , it must be hard to learn your dog to search under snowy conditions. Maybe you can write down how it works , this is the place to be and we all like to hear how anybody does that...what are the mistakes you made or can make and why are those mistakes. Please we like to read details , that is for all that are learning search or any other kind of dogsports.
john
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pluto
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Posts: 28
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Post by pluto on Jan 20, 2003 6:47:43 GMT -5
Hello Robert, John and others You have so right Robert my dog is a Zican dog! I dont think Search and Rescue is the same that Im training. But maybe I have wrong? In Sweden Search and Rescue is when you learn the dog to find people in for exampel a earthquate. The dog had to work even if its fire, smoke, a lot of nioce etc. If you have a suitable dog for this the state pays for the education of the dog. It will take about 1 1/2 year if you train a lot. I have been thinking of to test my dog, but I dont know if I have time to train so much. I also work and have two children to take care of. The sport I do with my dog has a military background and its always in the nature ( forest, hilly, meadows, wetlands, snow, rain, sun...). The dog serch with a high and "open" noose. He is not allowed to track!! Its good when theres snow, some dogs have difficulties to track in snow. My own doesnt regonised that its snow when he is tracking. It take a lot of time (years) to make a dog ready for competion in this event. A suitable dog is a dog who are high-powered, independent, love contact with people and not giving upp easy ( doesnt it sound like I describe an Amstaff?). Before you can start training you need to have a very good every day obedience on your dog ( not easy whit this kind of dog) and he must be able to fetch. Problem 1: If you have a dog whith this qualitys you also have a dog that will love hunting wild animals...Hunting has stopped a lot of good search dogs. Our forests are full of wild animals rabbits, mooses, elks etc. The dog works fare away from you and you will not see him. It has still never happen us, but if I will be honest I think he will take the opportunity if it jumps up a hare in the front of hes face. A dog who hunts is very embarrising for the owner and it is also forbidden by swedish law. Another problem is that alot of dogowners dont have that good every day obidience on there dogs thats needed and they use dominans to controll there dogs in their training (sometimes I am one of them). The dog will be stressed and showed it in different ways. And you will never have any good results at all.
For the moment I dont have time to write more, but if somebody is interested and if you understand my terrible english I can write more about how search works. Maria
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Post by Tacoma on Jan 20, 2003 7:59:00 GMT -5
Well, in the Norwegian Search and Rescue, this work you describe is a part of it, running in the forrest with the nose high and searching for people. This and tracking.
We have the Swedish Search and Rescue system as an option we can educate our dogs when you are approved with either summer or winter SAR.
The Norwegian SAR mainly goes out on finding lost persons in the mountains, forrests etc.
I've learned that using dominans to controll the dog is not right for me. My opinion is that when training the amstaff to doing this kind of work, the best thing is to "build up" the confidense and the relationship between the owner and the dog. The dog must allways trust your decission to send it out.
So when I train for this I do not command or in any way do anything that the dog looks at as negative.
I've learned that the dog works best when it has the choice to think for it's self while working.
I allso strengthen the bond between the figurant and the dog. This I do like this:
When the dog finds the figurant, I "sneak up" to them and act passive while the figurant rewards the dog. I slowly connect the lead to the neckless (while being rewarded), then i slowly pull the dog away from the figurant (while being rewarded).
When I send her out next time I wait to I get her focus the right way I am going to send her. I walk one foot forward with the dog at my side, stop, wait until she gets "frustrated" -THEN I send her out on command.
After I started doing it this way, she has realy started to enjoy the trainging, she has had an unbelievable advance in training.
Good luck with your training!
Best Robert
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pluto
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Posts: 28
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Post by pluto on Jan 20, 2003 13:34:52 GMT -5
Iam sorry if I explain myself bad in english, but I think exactly as you Robert about training dogs. That dogs work best when they can think by them self what to do. My dog is also clickertrained for the obedience program for making him fast and exactly. I never do something negative to the dog in training. It is important as you say to build up the relationship between the dog and owner. I also think that we have the same metods to train dogs in Sweden and Norway. I wanted to say that sometimes I feel that my everyday obedience it is not good enough . For exampel meet and pass other male dogs (I mean without the lead!) or work where a female in heat is or has been. I put so much time on training him to keep the concentration with other dogs around, that theres no time for other training! I have many time wished soft female dog. Maybe you Robert, who speak good english can explain her how search works here. I think its better if I am quite Maria
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Post by Tacoma on Jan 20, 2003 14:41:21 GMT -5
Hey there :-) It looks like your english is good enough ! I allso think people here has got an impression on ho the search works. I guess it is something like the IPO search where the dog runs behind the tents, but instead of tents we use the forrest, and instead of biting the sleeve, they lick someone's face And of corse it is longer distanses. My english sucks to, so dont worry about yours Please tell us more about your dog and your experiences!! I'd love to hear more. You know if there are any SAR amstaff's in Sweden? Or if there are any amstaff's in the police etc.? best wishes to you and Pluto, Robert Hughes ;D
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Post by Cheyenne Indians AST on Jan 20, 2003 19:12:12 GMT -5
Hello to our scandinavian members , Your english is just great , i really dont think anyone will care if a word isnt spelled correctly... i rather read your stories then nothing at all.
I love to see the work your doing with your search and resque dogs , just wonderful and[glow=red,2,300]THUMBS[/glow] up to the both of you !!
Keep those interesting stories coming , we cant get enough of them , can we :-)
john
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pluto
Full Member
Posts: 28
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Post by pluto on Jan 21, 2003 8:20:57 GMT -5
Hello again! We dont have any SAR amstaffs in Sweden and no Amstaffs in the police. In Sweden it is very hard to be a policedog and the Amstaff is out of question because of the coat. They need to have "double" coat because of the cold. I know that in Europe the police dogs are more specialized in what they do, the swedish policedogs must be able to do everything. It cost a lot of money to educated them and I think it should take more time to educate an Amstaff = even more expensive. I have heard that a completed police dog costs about 50 000 euro! I have tested Pluto for the The Home Guard. He did so well; I think he was best of all tested dogs, but he failed because of his coat But they have right it is to cold for him. It is a pity, it had fit him so well, its a lot of tracking. I have also mentaltested him with very good results. You can read about it on my website in detail. The website is unfortunately only in swedish and italian. I have competed with him in Obidience class I with a 1: price. My goal know are three 1:prices in class 2 to have the title LPII. My biggest enemy is "platsliggning" when the dog had to lay down and remain there together with the other dogs, when I leave the place I have also competed with him in Tracking I with a 1:price (including obediece program, "messenger service"and 300m tracking). I dont know what to call "messenger service". It is when you send the dog ( 50m in class I) to for the dog a unfamiliar person. The dog had to sit down there on the left side in position without command. The figurant touch the dog and then send him back to the owner. Theres two shouts when the dog is on his way. The speed the dog has its the most important. Its on the obedience field. The even is from old times when we used dogs in war and send them with messages. Maria
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Post by Cheyenne Indians AST on Jan 21, 2003 18:51:27 GMT -5
Hi maria ,
I can understand that the amstaff has a problem with the coat , their short hair and usually fit muscled bodies arent in their benefits for that matter. I have talked to a very good trainer in holland , he is very enthousiastic about the amstaff , while he is a 100% german sherperd man ...training on international level. He told me that the body of an amstaff is prefect for drugs work ..they have the dogs croll in small and narrow places , and the amstaff is strong enough for the job. Im sure that the amstaff has enough smell papils and be able to sence the smell of drugs , unfortunately i have never heard of any amstaff doing this. Maybe our american/canadian members know more about this type of work.
The police work , called KNPV in holland , is not done often , i cant remember any non sherperd doing that at the moment. We dont have any clubs to learn it , but i am sure that a good amstaff can do anything - even that. It might take some more time , im not sure if you can put that in money , but its alot of work thats for sure.
Im reading your messages gladly , i hope others will do the same , so we boost up this great forum :-)
john
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Post by HoochandMe on Mar 12, 2003 17:24:35 GMT -5
Hiya! I "somewhat" introduced my self in the other part of the forum. My name is Bonnie. I have 1 American Staffordshire Terrier. I don't work her. She has always been my pet and one of the family. We well be celebrating her 10th birthday on march 19th. I'm 22 I live in Ontario, Canada. I have 2 daughters 3 1/2 and 4 months old. Where I live there is a bylaw banning pitbull, Ampitbull, Staff bull terrier, Amstaff. Thankfully I have a very well trained dog, and good neighbors. I love my Animals!!
Huggies!!
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Post by Tracey on Mar 14, 2003 9:57:36 GMT -5
Hi from a fellow Canadian ;D
Take Care!
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Post by PitBullLeri on Mar 14, 2003 10:15:17 GMT -5
Mike writes: What really sucks is my neighbor is head training director of the San Diego Shutzhund club They don't like pits
Leri: Mike, what's your neighbors name? I know most of the Schutzhunders in your area and have never had a problem bringing my dogs down! If you are REALLY interested in learning more about SchH, let me know and I'll see if I can't hook you up with the right people down there. Or, you are always welcome to come check us out in Orange County on Sunday evenings.
Leri
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Post by Hartagold AmStaffs/APBTs on Mar 15, 2003 2:11:31 GMT -5
HI, finally made it on here! I was having a hard time registering - the board didn't like me Anyhow, most of you already know me because I have a big mouth and don't keep it quiet much lol I live in the Pittsburgh PA (USA) area, and have AKC/UKC registered AmStaffs/APBTs from the White Rock line. I do AKC & UKC conformation, obedience, and agility with my dogs, and am starting in Weight pull. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My dogs are: UKC CH, UCD Watchdog's Spirit of Freedom, TT, SCT, CGC, OFA, VCCX (11 yr old retired female)- Freedom AKC/UKC Ch UCDX White Rock Tuffer Than Taffy, CDX, CanCD, TT, SCT, CGC, OFA(hips,cardiac, patellas), CERF, DNA-P, ROH (9 yr old foundation b!tch) - Taffy AKC Ch, UKC GrCh, UAG1, UCD, FAST"E" Hartagold Standing Ovation, CD, OA, OAJ, SCT, CGC, OFA (hips, elbows, cardiac, patellas, thyroid), CERF, DNA-VIP, ROH - MeMe, 5 yrs old And my youngest, UKC Ch, AKC Major Ptd Hartagold Yankee Rose, CGC, CERF - Doodle, 21 months old ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Glad to see some more working AST people getting together!! ;D
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Post by Cheyenne Indians AST on Mar 15, 2003 6:58:42 GMT -5
Hello Lora ,
Welcome to our forum , working amstaff club :-) Well your in now , i don't know why it didnt let you in , i have even logged in with your name and a new password , and that worked fine. But anyway , welcome
john administration
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