Bloodlines which are the working ones?

[dakota]

Hello,

It is clear that the white rock line has some good working abilities (see all those messages here on WAA)but what about the others?

Which bloodlines are also suitable for the BIG work like rescue dog or the ,not as easy as it looks, ipo?

Dakota

[Cheyenne Indians AST]

Hi kim ,

Im no longer sure about that statement , others are saying that the WR they know of isnt the working skilled dog as we think it is.
Maybe its a matter of selecting and pure luck that a line is great or better in these kind of sports.
That doesnt take away the effort we as handlers need to put in , and then lines come in second.

If i'm not mistaken , a well known WR dog has a great working skill and good drive ..but his offspring doesnt.
So there you go , its not the line here ...im thinking , it might have been the tacoma behind the WR instead.

john

[geminiast]

I find the WR dogs hear have some great drive.
I am not sure if it is enough drive for SCH.
they r mostly show bred here also.

[Cheyenne Indians AST]

Knowing the WR first when we started in the late 80's with this wonderfull breed , we havent looked much to other 'lines ' at the start.

The americans and canadians , which have this breeds years earlier , and have much more ' lines ' then we do , certainly in the 80's and 90's , are more fortunate then us here.
My first male was a 95% pure ruffian , his name was skram's jack the zipper - son of mountain lion and snow roses ( chasqui and skrams kennels holland)
We started IPO training on him when he was just 6 months old ..starting to understand ourselves for the first time on IPO.

We did this with him and had to learn so much ourselves , but he was a very good dog to do this kind of dogsports with ..his drive was great.
Years later , knowing so much more - and having had our own litters , we still dont see many other 'lines 'in the sports - and we are still busy with those WR dogs .

When i look at the high drive our dogs have ...not all of them but the WR dogs do - two outof 7 have good drive ...while four have excellent drive .
All i have seen where white rock dogs , ive trained mine and i have seen others .....not half as good as mine are.
From our own litter , when we used chasqui metal mike - the litter was really very nice - but the drive and will to please was and still is extremely good.

I know after seeing the behaviour of more Amstaffs , that these ' lines ' doesnt give the same kind of skills all the time ..but for us she did.
Or maybe we are lucky :-)

john

[elina]

is it tru that the white rock line are changing in behaviour? i time ago ive seen a interview from the paragon kennel. he changed lines because of the lines contens too many inbreed. and wat about the bleu colour are there no skin problems? i would like to have a dog from the white rock line. i know that mr.pascoe loves working staffs. so thats why i want to have one but first off all i want a healthy dog!

[Carla]

I don't think there are enough people who are working Stafs to be able to point to one line and say it is the best. No one line has been intensely bred for "work" (and what kind of work are we talking about?).

I believe there are good prospects in ALL the lines. Working prospects are where you find them. If more "working" people were looking at litters from various lines and picking good prospects, I think they'd find good dogs in several different lines. Even from within a "line", Stafs vary quite a bit in energy level, aggressiveness, physical abillity, trainability, etc.

Here in the States, many of the best obedience/agility/Schutzhund dogs have been RESCUES!! I've seen a nice obedience dog from Fraja lines; and nice athletic agility dogs from Pat McKinney's Barbarian Kennels (and from White Rock and others!).

Personally, I don't believe anyone can claim to having a "working line". I say check out the litters from various lines, test the pups and pick one that meets your requirements.

Carla

[elina]

i believe that every dog, specially the bull en terrier dogs love working, to work for his master.
but if you dont understand how to train dogs you have a problem with every dog! some people have problems with every dog and some with none.
i dont want a dog from breeders that only show there dogs. i believe that high drive is important fore our dogs not afraid off anything but openminded against anything he meets.
at shows they only judge the outside off a dog but thats not the whole dog.
otherwise all breeds have the same behaviour .
its good to see that more people go working with staffies and other bull & terrier dogs.

[Cheyenne Indians AST]

The problem here is that the dutch ast club doesnt like working sports such as ipo-schH.
So to be able and try to breed working dogs - if thats is the answer to this question , you simply cant .
We need a recommendation from the club to be able to train ipo-schutzhund , but they aren't giving them anymore.
So that way , with all the other rules we suffer with , we can't do much.

Being dutch and not knowing that much about other lines , i cant be representive enough to say more then i already said here.
We know that working our dogs is super , but with too many against it and not willing to understand the sport we are with our backs against the wall here.

On the other hand - try and find owners willing to do sport , when you have highly temperamented pups ...thats not easy at all.
And how serious are those people , as you know many will stop fast when things arent going as hoped ...that is a problem as well .

john