True temperament testing.

[BethD]

Here is something I have been thinking about for a long time? Does anyone here believe that the only true temperament evaluation is to stress the dog. To put the dog in a situation where he is worked hard, and then see how he reacts durung and afterwords.
By this, I mean I know a lot of show people, here in the states, that think their dogs have great temperament, but their dogs only trot around the ring. So, I don't believe thay actually know.
I have seen dogs that were excellent pets, but after being maxxed out in the weight-pull or doing a lot of control work in protection, are loaded up, and can be potentially dangerous. They can not seem to keep a clear head. I have seen it in all breeds, but am only talking about the APBT/AST right now.
I hope I expressed myself correctly. I want to say, that i think a breeder or owner needs to work a dog hard in their chosen discipline, and see if the dog is still friendly and stable.

[Carla]

Absolutly Beth - I believe stability under stress is a hallmark of the breed.

Carla

[Cheyenne Indians AST]

Thats a real good one beth , and i have thought about it as well. The only way to know that a dog has a certain type of temperament is when you have the dogs in a 'critical 'situation , so that way you can see how they really behave.

As we all know its kinda easy to train a dog to do a TTest , we can already make them ready for the situations that the test involves.

I dont think that there will be a hugh difference between breeds , every dog has the same kind of nature and behaviour , so i dont believe its so much race related.

Good point !

john

[Carina]

The part I like doing MH-test with AST is they won´t get stressed... at least not mine.
Of course the tests not for "real".
For example: If I do MH with my Daschhounds they won´t show any huntinglust. They are huntingdogs and use their nose, at MH-test they must use their eyes the "huntingobject" doesn´t smell. Then the test says: Huntingdogs got no huntinglust...

When I test my AST-male I found out things about him, I never seen him angry/aggressive before, at the test he get angry at the "ghosts"(maybe he been stressed here). For me it was good to see, I can read him better...
And to see him get friendly directly when the ghosts undressed themselves make me feel good too.

But of course-this is not the best way...

Carina

[danb]

When I was still training at the ring club we had a professional dog trainer join. She brought with her 2 mals and a collie. She wanted to try them out for Ring.
All the dogs had various agility and flyball titles and they were her "demo" dogs and she had competed all over with them. Any ways, she thought her dogs had strong nerves.
Well..... we gave up on the collie real fast, had a really bad gun shot problem. After the gun was fired the dog wouldn't even bite it's favorite tug that had been it's reward for years.
We tried the mals for almost a year even though we knew quickly that they didn't "have it". The dogs fell apart mentally. The bitework was to stressfull for them, they had really weak growly bites and seperation anxiety started to surface!!! And their OB went in the crapper too.....

I was getting out of "Ring" and I decided to do something new with my relic dog. He was only an OK prospect for Ring. A forsure for brevet and a maybe for Ring1. He has good nerves but only OK drives.
So I took my relic dog to the above mentioned ladies OB and agilty club. Relic skipped 3 levels of OB and passed the 4th on the first try. This included all off leash control around 12 dogs. Also including a 3 minute sit stay and a 5 minute down stay( the dogs were almost touching). After passing the OB we passed beginner agility(first try) and started the intermidiate level agilty.
So my point being?
different tests test different things. I too think that the dog has to be really stressed to be really tested.
I think that "bitework" is stressfull on the dog and unless you've done it you really don't know how stressfull it is....nor does the dog.

dan

[pluto]

In the swedish mentaltest the dog will be stressed and it also necessary to see the dogs nervconstruction. The test start with that the testleader plays with the dog. The look after how the dogs grab and pull a toy. The last phase its the same but they look how/if the dog has changed during the test. During the test the dog has been threaten, scared, heard high noices and many gunshots.

[STARLIGHT]

In France, there is a test which helps with given "roughly" the character of the pup.
It's of the test of CAMPBELL.
Test must be made during the seventh week exclusively.
They are practised in a place without possible distraction for the pup and is made individually. Only one person mades them from beginning to end, and it does not matter that it is or not known pups. The person must be neutral: no the encouragement, not of reprimands. if possible to change the place between each pup.

TEST
Sociability
After having laid down the pup, to move away a few meters, and attract the pup (while striking in the hands), and observe.
A: it approaches merrily and seeks the contact.
B: seem to be interested and approach without seeking the contact.
C: Approach the low tail.
D: Hesitate to approach, the low tail
E: Do not approach

Independence
The first test having been noted, to rise and leave while going normally.
A: follows quietly, seeks to play, bites the feet.
B: follows quietly.
C: the low tail.
D: hesitate or is long in following, the low tail.
E: does not follow.

1/submissive
maintain the pup on the back during 30 seconds, the hand posed on sternum
A: refuse, struggles and bites
B: refuse, struggles, without biting
C: accept, stirs up, licks the hand
D: remain motionless
2/submissive
To lay down the pup, to pose a hand on its cranium, to direct the head on the right, on the left.
A: struggles, thunders, seeks to bite.
B: struggles.
C: seek to lick the hands.
D: is turned over, licks the hand.
E: remain motionless.

Dignity
by holding it under the belly with the hands, to maintain the pups with its height, end of arm.
A: struggles, thunders, bites.
B: struggles.
C: struggles, calms, observes, licks the hands.
D: remain indifferent.

EVALUATION
3 B and more: excellent aptitudes for raising, brilliant, courageous dog.
3 C and more: good aptitudes for the raising which must be carried out stages by stages.
2 D with 1 E and more: subjected dogs missing a little character, asking a raising carefully with patience
2 D and more with 1 E: tender, to draw aside.
2 A or more with B: dog with strong character, aggressive tendencies, reserved with excellent trainer.
Now if you have mixtures of A and E: to remake the test.
If the results are the same ones, that means that the dog is unpredictable .

Mick

[Carina]

Interesting reading.
It´s nice reading about what´s happening in other countries.

Thank you Mick!

Carina