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Post by Carina on Jul 27, 2003 16:14:16 GMT -5
Hallo! I don´t know the situations all around the world, but something I have thought about for a while is: Why can´t Amstaffs be placed by the Working Dogs? Maybe they already are in some countries, but not in Sweden. I saw Black Terrier is placed. I think people will show more respect for the breed if we use them for something. Working-Clubs have to let them in to work. It´s easier to start in competitions when you have a Workingclassdog. And you will have more serious people who´s calling for pups. Are my thinking good or crazy? My own experiences right now is: My female was at a mentalhealth/temperamenttest this spring, she was very good. I told I will go for a bigger test, it´s called "Korning" in Sweden. Everybody who´s watching her at the smaller test, told she would do the bigger test with no problem. I do phonecalls and payments for the test to four Working Clubs over all kind of places in Sweden. Everybody in clubs was very happy to have an Amstaff tested, but the rule in Sweden is: It´doesn´t matter who early you pay for the test, Workingdogs place you down at the waitinglist when they come in with their payment. The rule is the same if you want to start competitions in obedience and more. The result for my big test was- she was not allowed to started, just Workingdogs. And if she get started and do it succesful she never get the title "Korad" like the Workingdogs gets. It´s a fine title here in Sweden.
I see a big difference to selling Amstaffpups instead of selling Daschhoundpups. The people who calls for hunting dogs have an seriuos thought when they buy: They want to hunt for exemple. In Sweden Amstaff is selling like "company" dogs -bad english word from me. Of course you can sell an Amstaff for company, but I will surch for the Workingpeople to. When I have my first litter, I think it was 200 phonecalls to me, I have five pups, everybody wanted an Amstaff. I promise there was a lot of crazy people who´s calling. I chose Workingdog-people, for me Amstaff is a good Workingdog. I hope more people will understand their kapacity. Carina
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Post by Cheyenne Indians AST on Jul 28, 2003 5:10:20 GMT -5
Carina ,
This is the same thought i had several years ago - why don't they add the AST to the working dog group - but that is not working when the ASTCH = dutch amstaff breed club is against dogsports such as IPO or Schutzhund. They just don't understand it , and in my eyes are uncapable to represent our breed when they don't even understand anything about how things really work in our dogs sports. They still think that it makes the dogs more agressive - and because of the war against governments , they like to keep it quite and not get the attention back to the AST.
Of course this is crap , but in so many cases - we the small group that are doing a good job are less important over the rest. Its so bad now that the boardmembers of the dutch ast club , no longer allow her members to join dog training for ipo/schH anymore. I had a letter from the former chairman saying i was allowed to train - maybe he did get the picture , but unlike him the new board of directors are not like he was.
When dog clubs have real breed type people in them , that would be diffirent , but thats an utopia.
To many house pets owners , and nobody wants to fight for the rights of our beloved breed - a multifuncional breed that is capable of so many things - much more then sitting besides the couch ,or in its bench. Truely sad - but thats the reality thruout the world in afraid.
john
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Post by Carina on Jul 28, 2003 5:43:49 GMT -5
Hallo John! My thought are a little bit crazy, I believe that the Swedish Amstaff Club have the same opinum like your breedclub. I have asked my breeder once, and the answer was: hmmm! I´m not sure, but I feel that it was wrong question from my side. I should of course fight for this if the Swedish Amstaff Club would placed Amstaff in Workingdogsclass. Carina
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Post by Cheyenne Indians AST on Jul 28, 2003 11:01:47 GMT -5
Even when the idea is great - which it is , you won´t ever win it. We are special people , dont forget that ! and because we are just a small group , our priority is not the same as theirs. We are better , because we understand a dog and certainly our breed is more then a potato couch But they are the biggest group and people will listen to them more then to us real experts ;D ;D ;D Look at the german sherpards - there are many of them , but in compairness , only a few work them , so lets say 1 outof 8 GSD do work , for the amstaff its maybe 1 outof 80 or even less work with them. john
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pluto
Full Member
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Post by pluto on Jul 28, 2003 14:50:04 GMT -5
I think that if we want to see our breed as a working breed, we cant just talk how good they are, we must proof it with good results. In Sweden we have all the oppertunety. If somebody has told you that they place you down at the waitinglist because of the breed when you will start competition, you must report the matter!! Because all registred dogs are allowed to compare in all kind of working events in Sweden. Mixed breeds and unregistred dogs are only allowed to obdience and agility and they will never have the championtitel. And if its to much inscripted dogs there will be a drawing of lots. I have inscripted my dog to 3 obedience competitions and 2 tracking competitions (similar to BSH, but here it also include a obedienceprogram) in aug/sept without problems. The korningtest its another thing and they put us on a list. I will also try when my dog has the right age. Carina, please help me! Im active on a big and very active workingdogforum. For the moment they discuss amstaffs. They for exampel want to know why we dont kore our dogs?? BLa bla bla It seems like the dónt understand that we cant. I have alreadey wrote it, but no the dont understand. Then they are also convint that the amstaffs are breed that the dont have doglanguage anymore. An amstaff can not stay together with other dogs... ´The web are www.vasterviksbk.nu Hope I see you in some competition and good luck/ Maria
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Post by Carina on Jul 28, 2003 15:41:45 GMT -5
John! Yes, we are special people, with SPECIAL dogs! We have to go on and work our dogs and have fun, for the moment just ignore stupid people and stupid rules. Maria! I was so proud of my female after the MH-test, and really look forward to do the "Korning". I asked to hold your thumbs, and see what´s happends, I won´t even be started. Yes, all kind of breeds are allowed to get started at competitions in Sweden, but if there is many Workingdogs at one competition they will be at the list before you. I also will rekommend you to do the payment/fill in the paper for "Korning" early. And I hope I will start competition with my femalein obedience soon, I stop train her because of the heat in Sweden in July and she was "bleeding". I will go on... In august/september she´s ready to start trackingtest (wildanimals/blood). And of course I will help and write to the forum! Carina
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Post by Carina on Jul 28, 2003 23:01:13 GMT -5
I was at the Swedish Workingdogs forum, and wrote two long letters to save the "honour" of Amstaff, but Maria: I saw the letter won´t be placed, it´s seems something gets wrong, I will check this out. In this forum I can tell, the tread(at Swedish forum) start with questions about Pitbulls and in the end they start to discuss why people with "fightingdogs"breeds never went for "mentalhealth/temperamenttests. And if it´s right it´s so badly we in Sweden don´t test our Amstaffs more, and the conclusion of that is - we don´t work them so much eighter. What I mean is: If the Swedish Amstaffowner not do the tests its mean they not starts at competions in work, it´s a rule in Sweden. Do the test otherwise you can´t start at competitions. But of course all people will not work their dogs for competitions... Carina
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Post by Cheyenne Indians AST on Jul 29, 2003 6:19:45 GMT -5
It seems very very hard to convince people about the skills of the AST , and the people are not really interested in our breeds , they have the same oppinion as the rest. Why close a breed in arms when they are problems breeds - that is their idea , how narrowminded or not that is the fact many of them have.
It is almost impossible to get thought the other way , we know that our breed is capable of anything what they can think of , but do we have to keep on doing this ?
We have to deal with too many things , on one end we have to convince the wrong owners that we need pedigrees , teach them that the breed is more then just a pet. And on the other side we have to educate the people that have other breeds , that our breed is just as good , or even better in certain dogsports. In the past i had the energy to tell all of them , but this hasn't been a easy job , and there are alot of fools not even trying to understand. As member of a dutch dog site , i have been trying to convince the members , all dogpeople , that our breed is much more then just beautiful or impressive - its hard , some i have changed their thoughts about the breed , but for others that not ever possible - narrowminded fools.
john
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pluto
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Post by pluto on Jul 29, 2003 7:20:01 GMT -5
Carina! At that forum you get logged out very fast, in a few minuts. I always copy what I have wrote and then I logg in again and place what I have wrote and then post it.
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Post by Carina on Jul 29, 2003 7:59:23 GMT -5
Maria, yes it what´s happening when I wrote the letters, I will try again and do like you...(bad english) About Amstaff I never met any bad thoughts about my dogs when I am around with them, more I feel that people like them, and have learn about the breed. Especially dogpeople know that it´s not Amstaffs making problem around. In the Swedish forum it seems like people from bigger citys like Stockholm, Göteborg and Malmö have the bad thoughts... They have of course more trouble with the people who put dog with different breed together for exemple Amstaff/Rottweiler, Amstaff/Dobermann and more and use the dog for scaring people. Someday everybody will learn that it´s not Amstaffpeople making this monsters. Carina
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Post by Carina on Jul 29, 2003 8:36:14 GMT -5
Exuse my bad choice, called dogs for monster... But it´s thrue the bad boys/girls force them to be just like that! This kind of people doesn´t just put Amstaffs in dirt, they put Pitbulls there too. Because they use the breedname Pitbull when they create this kind of dogs. Carina
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Post by Cheyenne Indians AST on Jul 29, 2003 11:27:50 GMT -5
If there is a problem with a cross breed - lets say amstaff/pitbull ×doberman/rottweiler and the dog looks more like a amstaff or pitbull , it is always a amstaff or pitbull that did the damage ! I really think its going the wrong way these couple of years , we are fighting the wrong war - its better to not sell pups to the wrong people BUT these people are getting crosses and whatever breed they can get their hands on. Its double , and too difficult...its a long fight , but we are losing the battles when people don't change their attitude in buying dogs in general.
john
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Post by Carina on Jul 29, 2003 18:02:05 GMT -5
One good thing I found out when I talk with people who call me when I have my pups for sale was: The owner of this crossbreed give up their kind of dog, now they want a real Amstaff to be sure the dog has a good temperament. It´s of course only the good people who want to change breed. They at least understand the meaning to own an safe Amstaff instead. Now the crossbreeder maybe lose buyers and the market will go down. Carina
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Post by Cheyenne Indians AST on Jul 30, 2003 5:55:00 GMT -5
That is good news - i wished the dutch where the same. But as long that there is a demand on those kind of dogs - meaning amstafflook al likes , for less money then a amstaff with a proper pedigree, as long as there are people that will provide those people.
Till that happens , we are still under fire. We pray for the best , breeders have to start thinking overhere..and be even more strict to whom they sell their pups to.
john
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Post by Carina on Jul 30, 2003 13:57:42 GMT -5
Now I have to go on telling good stories... What I found out this years(4) I have own Amstaff is: When I walk around, people stop me and say: Is it a Pitbull ? (Now Pitbull- owner on this board I must tell, in Sweden Pitbull is the word for the bad crossingbreed, sorry for that!) These days when I walk around with my dogs, people say: Is it Amstaff ?, no longer they ask about Pitbull. It seems people learn about our breed. Swedish people have to learn about Pitbull to! Carina
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